I never got the "Built not Bought" crowd

"YSI-what can brown do for you" (ysi-what-can-brown-do-for-you)
09/24/2013 at 03:59 • Filed to: None

Because in the end they are still buying the parts for their car. It isn't like they are going to they go to their shop and building it themselves. Whatever.

DISCUSSION (22)

Loping Camshaft > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 04:13

It's a way for guys who put a lot of effort into building their cars to show pride in their effort. There's a lot of thought, research, and planning that goes into building a project car. Also, many cars, especially hot rods, have A LOT of custom metalwork and fabrication that absolutely cannot be bought in a store. And i respect the builder's time and skill to do that.

I know what you mean, but there is merit to it.

Bird > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 04:14

Some people need to feel superior to others.

It's all about ego and insecurity. Pretty much the same thing that drives douchebags of all types.

Bird > Loping Camshaft
09/24/2013 at 04:19

There's merit to discrediting someone else because they don't have the particular skill set to complete said work, but appreciate it enough to shell out lots of money to guys that do said work for a living?

You can be proud of your work without mentioning that someone else had a shop build their ride.

I try to do everything I can myself but, and I'd love to build a hot rod one day, but if I had the cash, there's several builders who would earn my money.

Loping Camshaft > Bird
09/24/2013 at 04:28

When I see "Built not Bought" I think that the owner did a majority of the work themselves. High level Ridler Award winners don't need to even mention that a lot of people helped build the car. But the person doing it in his garage all winter deserves to have a little more pride the HE built it HIS (or her) way. If you don't have a particular skill, learn. That's the point. That's what's fun. That goes along with the hobby/pass-time side of things. I see it as something like going to school, your diploma/degree stands for your time and effort and what you've learned and it's something to be proud of.

Bird > Loping Camshaft
09/24/2013 at 04:39

I completely agree someone that does take the time to learn a skill has every right to be proud of that. Just not at the expense of another enthusiast. I believe you can be proud of your own work without needing to cite anyone else for any reason. I'm referring to the people that generally discredit other car guys exclusively because they didn't turn the wrenches on their car. Not guys that are showing off their work, and telling the world they did it in their garage. You can shout it to the rooftops that you built it yourself without saying you're a better enthusiast than the guy who didn't.

And besides even if you built it yourself, unless you cast your own block, you bought some stuff...

Squid > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 04:42

On Miata.net there's a high dollar build that one of the members basically just threw fistfulls of money at to have the highest horsepower turbo NC out there. It seems like the guy just has a bunch of money to throw at the car and no knowledge of how to do any work himself. I don't really get the built not bought crowd in the tuner car scene but with hot rods I definitely get that mentality.

I see no point in paying someone to build you a rat rod, those are cars that you cobble together one piece at a time. You learn how to weld to put your roof back on after you figured out how to chop it. You learn how to pull the suspension apart and how the body gets pulled off the chassis. Rat rods are the first do it your self go fast car. You shouldn't be paying someone hundreds of thousands of dollars to put together a primer and rust colored car.

But then again there are the guy's out there that have no time to work on a project car at all and make enough money to have someone put together a toy that they can enjoy. There are some fantastic builders out there with loads of talent, and there are certain things I would pay some one to do either because I lack the skill to accomplish the task with grace and beauty or I know it will piss me off and I'll put the job off for ever just so I don't have to do it. Its all different strokes for different folks and there are certain subcultures in the automotive world that lean heavily on a DIY attitude.

Loping Camshaft > Bird
09/24/2013 at 04:44

When you put it that way, I completely agree. There are dicks everywhere.

Bird > Loping Camshaft
09/24/2013 at 04:48

Yes...The most unfortunate thing about this world...

Crocket Bernet > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 06:25

I know a kid who bought an upgraded wrx then put a built not bought sticker on it.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > Crocket Bernet
09/24/2013 at 07:24

I knew a kid who bought a autotragic WRX and then proceded to put an STI wing on it with a carbonfiber hood and a external wastegate that you could hear (had some kind of bullhorn setup on it). God what a tool.

davedave1111 > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 08:34

'Built, not bought' is a bodybuilding slogan about not using steroids/silicone. Some bros probably put it on a bumper sticker on their trucks, or some such, and it got misconstrued and copied from there.

LandSpeed-DSM > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 10:01

If I researched, blueprinted, modified, assembled, installed and tuned almost every component of every system in the car.. it was "Built, not bought."

What I personally didn't build, weld or machine because I don't have the money for a lathe or 5-axis CNC at the moment, was designed by me. Save for the chassis and the front and rear-subframe (for now) I can weld and run a CNC Machine (MasterCam) I just can't afford the equipment and do not have access to any for personal use currently.

That I didn't forge the connecting rods myself doesn't change that I still had to choose which ones work for my application from everything offered or have a set made. Even then, I opted to have a larger, tool-steel wrist pin put in, shot-peen, cryo and surface treat them, press in tool-steel rod bolts, throw them on a mandrel and true the big end, etc.

If you don't understand that, I can't help you but don't pretend there is no difference between what we do and the "check-cutting" crowd does.

It's things like cranking out spreadsheets for pump flow vs voltage and pressure for different fuels at different fuel temperatures to determine how much airflow they can supply and building the rest of the fuel system to support that. Comparing those figures to plotted VE/Engine demand flow on a compressor map, matching the turbine side to that, having a pair of cams custom ground to my spec with adjustable sprockets to further tailor the setup and tweak overlap, designing an exhaust manifold to best compliment the rest of the combo etc. is in no way comparable to handing a pile of money to some shmuck like Hennessey.

I can read plugs, use information like drive:boost ratio, compare spark advance with EGT and AFR, etc. and decipher what this information tells me to improve my program.

You'll be hard pressed to find someone who simply paid for the work on their car, asked for a power figure and occasionally stops in to take pictures that can do the same. This is why some folks make the distinction between building it yourself and dropping it off for someone else to do everything. Chalk it up to pride if you like, but since when is pride a bad thing.. it means you care, and perhaps instead of denigrating a group of knowledgeable enthusiasts you should hit some books, buy a beater and start blowing things up on your own.

Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 10:14

I'm fairly certain that what you're talking about is people in more modern machinery that have modified their cars, and that's cute that they think they've "built" their cars. This is what "building" a car looks like:

Kinja'd!!!

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > YSI-what can brown do for you
09/24/2013 at 11:28

It's a commendable philosophy, provided it's accurate. The concept of learning the skills yourself, but it's a bit crass to go around flaunting that over other people.

It breaks the rule of 'don't shit on someone else's ride'. In this case, just because they paid someone else to make something.

Bird > LandSpeed-DSM
09/24/2013 at 13:35

I wasn't going to reply until I got to this part:

"Chalk it up to pride if you like, but since when is pride a bad thing.. it means you care, and perhaps instead of denigrating a group of knowledgeable enthusiasts..."

Now first off let me say I think anyone has every right to be proud of their skills, but that doesn't mean that someone who had a car built doesn't appreciate the skills of their builder, or that they are degenerating the hobby. You're representing the bad attitude from the other side. Yes there are complete tools who go buy their built up car and have no knowledge or respect for the guy that did the work. Just like their are guys that built it all themselves to a low standard, who believe their work is gold. The kind of guys that put a run filled paint job on their car and think that makes them a better car guy. Just like anything in life the idiots are always more visible. I truly believe there are more good guys out there that can't turn a wrench than tools. From my own personal experience, most of the guys I've run into that don't do the work, don't pretend there is no difference between doing it yourself and paying for it. Most also love to learn.

Pride can be a bad thing. Too much pride can take over you...it's when pride becomes ego.

You also take the point that, well I learned anyone can. That's just not true. Not everyone who appreciates hot rods for example, will ever have the time to learn all the skills to build one. Or necessarily be starting from the same point as you. I was lucky to be introduced to cars at a very early age. I was also taught how to do mechanical work at an early age. That's a head start to the guy that was never introduced to these things as a child. That guy may be learning new things all the time...but as I'm sure you know, that isn't a quick process.

My whole point in this is, it's great to be proud of your work. You can be proud of your work and show it off to the world without ever referencing the 'bought it' crowd. I hate seeing bias, stereotypes, and ego that unreasonably excludes people from the hobby. This type of attitude judges people before you've ever met them.

Besides, who would support all of the professional fabricators, engine builders, painters etc., if no one was willing to pay for professional skills?

LandSpeed-DSM > Bird
09/24/2013 at 13:57

Go to any forum or real-life meet, and you'll quickly see the flaws in appealing to the idea that folks don't pretend there is a difference or there are "more good guys" that can't turn a wrench.

Do you have a project car?

That the results from my projects and programs are the direct result of my involvement is infinitely more satisfying than what can be achieved by having sent it off carte blanche to a big name.

It's like being proud of paying someone else to f*ck your wife, in short. I'm sorry you don't appreciate that concept.

I know more than a few folks who bought turn-key race cars from someone else and act like they are responsible for its past successes and development.

It's the pretending that you know more than you actually do. Look, if someone can afford an R35 and then have it modified to the point its running 8s I'll respect the machine and the group who made it.. I'm also happy that person has had the personal success to afford it. No qualms there.

But the moment they try to claim it as their accomplishment is when they become a complete tool.

Bird > LandSpeed-DSM
09/24/2013 at 14:18

I do have a project car, and basically every car I've ever had was a 'project'. Sometimes they just weren't that cool. I very much enjoy doing as much as I can myself. I'm quite proud of everything I can do, and at the same time I understand how very little I know. I'm hoping to make a move soon that will afford me more time/space to go further.

I also regularly attend meets/shows/races/events of many various types. It's unfortunate you've had such a bad experience with the people you've met. When that happens though, it's always good to look at the people you're around. Maybe it's time to expand your horizons?

We obviously agree there are lots of tools out there. I think we just disagree on whether or not the grass is really greener on the other side...

LandSpeed-DSM > Bird
09/24/2013 at 14:35

It sounds like we agree on the majority, just a different perspective. I stay away from shows/meets now and stick with consulting/building or racing. It's made me a much happier person haha

I got away from the Honda scene earlier this year (I DD a Honda.. many if not most custom turbo GD and GE Fits in the US had my involvement) did a lot of work and just burnt out. That helped.

The DSM group, which still attracts its fair share of Yolo Swaggins type teenage-text-speak morons, is much better as a community. Before that was an SBC Monza which also was a bunch of cool guys.

The Diesel guys too for that matter. Of all makes. Next build will be a Fox Body. God help me..

Bird > LandSpeed-DSM
09/24/2013 at 15:20

I got hit hard with the gearhead bug....I would just as happily spend time examining every moving part of a perfectly restored steam tractor, as I would clean race car build. I think that's where a lot of my perspective has come from. My current project is pretty much stalled at the moment, but is a turbo Miata track build.

It's clear guys that are into speed take things more seriously than the show/style crowd, and the guy there pretending he's something he's not sticks out more. The scene really makes a difference. If you don't even understand the vocabulary, it's easy to start spouting off stupid crap. I think that's good and bad in a way. It makes it easy to spot the tool, but it can make someone that wants to learn, hesitant to speak up for fear of saying something that sounds dumb.

YSI-what can brown do for you > Crocket Bernet
09/24/2013 at 19:23

I see no problem with his logic. . .

YSI-what can brown do for you > Loping Camshaft
09/24/2013 at 19:25

Well I am not really talking about hot rodding, but more so the tuners. Generally speaking, they usually buy a part(exhaust, turbo, tune you name it) and then put it onto their car. Yes, they had to think about it and had to get their hands dirty, but it isn't like they had to sweat blood just to make it. . .

YSI-what can brown do for you > Bob Loblaw Made Me Make a Phoney Phone Call to Edward Rooney
09/24/2013 at 19:28

Yes I am in fact talking about the modding thing. It just doesn't make sense the logic.